Linda Mott commented (Oct 6th 2014)…
I’m curious if anyone has tried to untangle the various Harrison families who lived in Ilkeston circa 1700s-1800s?
I have a particular interest in Joseph Harrison b 1813 of Horsley Woodhouse and a wife named Phebe Burgin. His parentage remains unknown. Joseph, wife and family appear living in Albion Place in the 1851 Ilkeston census. He’s a glove maker. He also appears with Phebe in the 1841 Horsley Woodhouse census. Of note a Sarah (Harrison) Thompson family with her father named Joseph Harrison appear in the 1841 Horsley W. census and again in the 1851 Ilkeston census. By looking at the bd. of Joseph and Phebe’s children and those of Sarah Thompson’s it seems both families left Horsley W for Ilkeston at about the same time about 1848.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated for it is one of Joseph’s ancestors who came to America and started my Harrison branch! .
Dave replied (Oct 7th 2014)…
Calling all Harrison researchers!!?
Tackling the Gordian Knot is a relatively simple problem compared with sorting out the Harrisons of Ilkeston and places around .. and you seem to have chosen one of the few Harrison families not discussed by Adeline Wells in her letters.
Starting with Sarah Thompson (nee Harrison) …. she is mentioned on the site with her husband William (see Three new shops) the daughter of Joseph and Sarah (nee Foster)? She died in Rutland St, Ilkeston on Jun 15th 1891, aged 72 and as you say was born in Horsley Woodhouse. Her son Joseph was born in Ilkeston in 1844 which would narrow down the time that the Thompsons moved into Ilkeston.
You probably know much more about Joseph Harrison and Phebe (nee Burgin) than I do, and it sounds like you have been chasing Joseph’s parents for a long time (along with many other researchers?) I can’t help you a great deal with this.
I believe that their daughter Ann, born in Horsley abut 1834 died in Ilkeston on Feb 8th 1847, aged 13. Their son John was born in Ilkeston in the same year… again this narrows down when they arrived in Ilkeston. Their twins Joseph and Joshua were born on Sep 25 1849, at 12.30am and 12.40 am respectively. (Joshua died in infancy?) After 1851 the family left Ilkeston and ended up at Awsworth, just across the Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire border.
Whatever else I know about them you probably already know … so maybe there is someone out there with more to add??
Linda replied (Oct 8th 2014)…
Thank you for putting out the call to the Harrison Researchers. The numerous Harrison families of Ilkeston are most likely tied up in a GIANT granny knot that’s been pulled really tight! Yes, Joshua died in infancy. They also had an older son named Joseph who died at a young age. They would later repeat the name Joseph when the twins were born. Not uncommon for the times. . .but was it to insure to pass on their father’s first name or that of their grandfather?
We have a few Ilkeston clues with Joseph’s wife Phebe (Burgin) Harrison:
Phebe (Burgin) Harrison’s parents were Henry and Ann (Annable) Burgin. Henry was born in 1777 in Horsley W and Ann (Annable’s) bd. and b pl. are unk.. Ann and Henry married in Horsley W in Mar of 1799. Henry Burgin’s parents were Edward and Amy (Carrier) Burgin. Birthdates and birthplaces for both are unknown but they married in Ilkeston July 21, 1771. Now I have not been able to establish a connection between Phebe’s grandmother Amy (Carrier) Burgin with the later more notable Carrier families of Ilkeston who Adelaide mentions in her letters.
Since Joseph Harrison was a FWK and glove maker it makes sense that the success of the trade dictated how Joseph earned a living and where he lived. Did he have Harrison kinfolk in Ilkeston who could offer him a job such as Christopher Harrison or did he use a very slight connection via his wife’s Carrier heritage to prompt him to move to Ilkeston from Horsley Woodhouse during the 1840s? So many questions and there really aren’t any paper answers!
Dave replied (Oct 14th 2014)…
I believe Amy Carrier married Edward Burgin on July 21st 1772 at St Mary’s.
It might be that she was the daughter of Thomas Carrier and Hannah (nee Barker) who married May 26th 1731 at Duffield when the groom’s address was ‘of Ilkeston’.
Amy was baptised July 26th 1752. There were several siblings … John (bap May 7th 1732)/ Thomas (bap Jan 24th 1734)/ John (bap jun 24th 1743)/ Henry (bap Oct 15 1746)/ Hannah (Jul 28th 1754) … all at St Mary’s.
Father Thomas died and was buried at St Mary’s on Mar 26th 1756.
His widow Hannah then married frame setter John Woolin on May 8th 1759 at St Mary’s.
Hannah was buried on Jul 21st 1787 … guess where!!
Linda replied (Oct 15th 2014)…
Thanks for the extra Carrier info. This is new and looks plausible. . .Thomas Carrier of Ilkeston marries Hannah (nee Barker) the 26th of May 1731 at Duffield and he and Hannah baptize several children one of whom is Amy plus brothers John, Henry and Thomas. The brother named Henry b. in 1746 is of interest. . .St Mary’s was certainly home to these Carriers!
After re-reading some of Adelaide’s letters I found mention of a Henry Carrier who died in 1812. It is this Henry Carrier who is an uncle to the Henry Carrier of Carrier & Sons. I wonder if the uncle of Henry Carrier of Carrier & Sons could possibly have been Amy Carrier Burgin’s brother? Amy Carrier Burgin, then, would have been his aunt. I’m probably grasping at straws here to get Phebe Burgin and her husband, Joseph Harrison to Ilkeston in the 1840s, without any actual proof of Phebe’s possible kinship to these Carriers of Carrier & Sons!!
Dave replied (Oct 15th 2014)…
Amy Carrier’s brother Henry died in infancy and was buried at St Mary’s on Mar 27th 1748.
Henry Carrier who died in 1812 and was buried at St Mary’s on Jan 30th was aged 68 at death and Carrier family papers show him to be the son of Anchor (sometimes Archer) Carrier. He had brothers John, Thomas and Roger.
The brother John married Esther Woolin on Nov 10th 1770 and they had at least seven children including a Henry, baptised on Sep 17 1779.
This Henry Carrier married Elizabeth Smith on Feb 10th 1802 and he appears on the site at Henry Carrier & Sons
So his uncle Henry was the Henry ‘son of Anchor’.
Sandra Ibbotson asked (Jun 10th 2015) …
I would be interested to learn more about Charlotte Fullwood nee Harrison. She married Cornelius Fullwood. On the 1841 census there is a note suggesting that her parents were Thomas and Sarah. Do you have anymore information re Thomas and Sarah and if Charlotte had any siblings?
Dave replied (Jun 10th 2015) …
The baptisms of the children of Cornelius and Charlotte at the Wesleyan Methodist Ilkeston Circuit indicate that Charlotte’s maiden name was ‘Harrison’ and that she was the daughter of Thomas and Sarah.
The census information would indicate that she was born in Ilkeston about 1811.
There seems to be one other child of a ‘Thomas and Sarah’ … Joseph Harrison born in Ilkeston in 1803 and baptised at St. Mary’s Church on Feb 14th 1824, suggesting he survived into adulthood.
Two months later there is a marriage of Joseph Harrison to Elizabeth Stables at St. Mary’s Church. They continued to live in Ilkeston and Joseph died at Kensington on May 31st 1880, aged 77.
There is a marriage of Thomas Harrison to Sarah Williams at St. Mary’s Church on Feb 26th 1802.
Not a lot to go on I’m afraid.
Sandra added (Jun 11th 2015) …
Thank you for your information. You have confirmed what I thought. I was wondering if Thomas remarried Susannah Clifford in 1826. If so, by cross referencing with the 1841 census Thomas died in 1861.
Alodie asked (May 6th & 8th 2016) …
I would very much like to trace Ann Harrison further back ( she married Benjamin Spencer in 1811), and wondered if you had any ideas who her father was or where she might have come from?. I don’t think she was born in Ilkeston. I would love to know more about the Spencer and Harrison families ( i did read about Hillary Spencer’s suicide and Old Mary Spencer looking after the child that was killed ), but I haven’t read all the letters yet, but it’s rather dramatic so far!. I was also interested in what sort of area Park Road was situated in, and possibly the Lace Factory the Spencer family might have worked in.
Finally ( and this one is a bit random) . William and Ruth Webster were Benjamin Spencer’s parents. Ruth Webster had a sister called Elizabeth Civica Webster. Is it possible that they have an Italian connection and would that be at all likely in 1700’s Derbyshire ?
I’ve been doing a bit more research and wondered if my Ann Harrison, born abt 1791 ( place unknown) might be, Nanny Harrison, born in 1791 in Ilkeston to Tim Harrison and Bennett? The mysterious Ms Bennett. I think Nanny is another form of Ann, but I could be wrong on this.
I’m guessing also that the Spencer’s worked at Carriers Lace Factory.
Dave replied (May 9th 2016) …
Ann Spencer (nee Harrison) died in Ilkeston on Jan 16th 1846, aged 54 which would make her birth year around 1791 … without other evidence it is extremely difficult to determine her parents. As you say there is a Nanny Harrison born to Timothy and Bennett (nee Limb) in 1791 and Nanny is used instead of Ann. They did have another ‘Nanny’ baptised Dec 29th 1782 who, I believe was buried Apr 27th 1786 (as Ann, daughter of Timothy). I can’t find a record of a burial of the second Nanny.
If you are unfamiliar with Ilkeston, there is an area called White Lion Square where several roads coming into/ going out of the town converge … Nottingham Road, Park Road, Derby Road, Stanton Road … their names indicate where they go to/come from.
The Spencer clan lived in Park Road for many years which was basically a country lane for most of its length in the 1850’s. The cottages on it were at one end, where the road emerged into White Lion Square, and were more on its south side than its north side. For most of its length it was unpopulated and basically followed the line of the present-day Park Road, down to the River Erewash. Towards the far end of the road in the countryside and away from the workers’ houses, were two large houses …the Park and Larklands, both owned at one time by the Potter family.
As you say the Spencers might have worked at Carriers Lace factory … I have no record of where they worked … there are perhaps more likely candidates for their employment. For example, in the 1850’s, Christopher ‘Kester’ Harrison traded in South St and Derby Road as a lace manufacturer and hosier, the Crooks family (neighbours of the Spencers) were lacemakers of this area. As the Spencers lived for several years in this area it is possible that they worked very locally, not far to walk? … though it isn’t a million miles to walk to the Carrier works off Bath St. The other large employer of lace workers was the Ball family of the Albion Works in Burr Lane/Albion Place.
Finally the Italian connection. I assume that Ruth Webster was the daughter of William and Mary and baptised in Kirk Hallam (Feb 11 1759) .. the Elizabeth Civica Webster who you mention was baptised at West Hallam which is a neighbour of Kirk Hallam and so could easily be a member of the same family. However I am sceptical of an Italian connection .. although I would never rule anything out until there is evidence one way or the other’
I’m afraid I can’t be more definitive in any of my answers … mainly because I don’t have the evidence.
Alodie replied (May 10th 2016) …
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I had a few doubts that Ann Harrison was Nanny Harrison….clutching at straws maybe!. I’m leaning towards Ann Harrison being born elsewhere, as her place of birth ( Ilkeston ) would probably have been noted.
As for the Webster family, I was curious about them because Civica is such an unusual name, so I wondered if it was an old surname or something to do with the mother’s side. Perhaps they just like reading about Roman history or something:) I guess it will have to remain another family mystery.
Thank you for the description of White Lion Square and the roads leading off it. That has really helped me build a picture of Ilkeston and where my family lived and is very helpful. As is your information about the various lace factories. As you’ve probably guessed, I am very unfamiliar with Ilkeston, and because there are areas that I have had to research that don’t know at all, that is when I accidentally add extra relatives that aren’t mine:).
My 3 x great grandfather George Spencer had moved his family to Beeston by the 1861 census and my gt gt grandmother moved to Leicester when she was 20 and settled there with her family. So most of that side of my family are from Leicester and Birmingham area.
Victoria Hardy asked (Jun 7th 2017)
I am researching my Harrison side of my family.
There is a lot of stories from different members but I have recently spoken to my cousin who believes that our Harrison’s started in Derbyshire. Four children … the only dates I have are for twins William and Joseph born in 1830 to a Thomas Harrison and lived in Hollinsclough. The other two children were Sarah and Thomas. Joseph moved to Manchester and got married to a lady called Alethea and he was a spirit dealer and inn keeper.
I have tried to research the Harrison family for a while as we are all on Merseyside and i have not found the link.
If I can help anyone and they can help me I would be really grateful
Dave replied (Jun 7th 2017)
It looks like twins William and Joseph were born on May 3rd 1829 at Hollinsclough, and baptised at Longnor, Staffordshire on Apr 2nd 1843 .. sons of Thomas, a brewer, and Sarah.
Sarah was born at Birmingham, Warwickshire, about 1791.
As you say Joseph moved to Manchester and on the 1851 census is living there with his unmarried brother Thomas (aged 33, born in Hereford)
Joseph married Alethea Davies, (daughter of Edward and Elizabeth?) in 1852 at Manchester .. she was also born in Herefordshire, at Lyonshall?
From the census, it seems that father Thomas the brewer died between 1851 and 1861 and that mother Sarah died after 1861, (perhaps in Manchester?)
As yet I cannot see a connection between this Harrison family and Derbyshire … perhaps your cousin has more clues?
However I will post your request on the site .. in the ‘Help‘ section
Ken Taylor asked (Sep 30th 2017) …
I’ve been researching the Winfield branch of our family and am wondering if Lucy Harrison (born 1785 at Crich) who married George Winfield in 1807 at Ilkeston, is the same person as Sarah Harrison (also born in 1780s at Crich)…
Sarah appears with husband George Winfield in the 1861 Census and according to the Ilkeston ‘Independent’ baptism records was mother to his children Ann (born 1814), George (1819) and Sarah (1821).
Lucy and Sarah each have significant gaps in their genealogical record that the other neatly fills, and with no overlaps that I’ve found. However, that’s still only circumstantial evidence, and I’d really like to find a contemporaneous record that indicates Lucy and Sarah are actually one and the same.
If you know of such a thing, or can shed any other light on this puzzle, I’d be delighted to hear of it. Lucy is a direct ancestor, and it would be great to learn more about her.
Dave replied (Oct 2nd 2017) …
I recall looking at this issue some years ago when I started to put these records together … and the conclusion I came to then was that Lucy and Sarah were the same person, not finding any evidence to contradict that conclusion (of course, ‘not finding evidence’ is not the same as ‘no evidence exists’ !!
In this reply I include detail which you are no doubt aware of but which others may read and perhaps offer their own ideas ?
George Winfield’s wife seems to have started and ended her life as ‘Lucy’
She was baptised as Lucy Harison at Crich in 1785, daughter of Thomas (and Ann (nee Harrison) ?)
She married George as ‘Lucy’ on Dec 26th 1807.
She died as Lucy Winfield on Feb 9th 1876 at Ebenezer Street, Ilkeston, aged 92, when she was described as the’widow of George Winfield, framework knitter’, her son George being present at the death. She was buried at St Mary’s Church on Feb 11th.
However as you point out Ken, George’s wife is at times referred to as ‘Sarah‘
She is ‘Lucey’ at the baptism of her children in 1814, yet ‘Sarah’ at further baptisms in 1822 and 1824.
On the 1841 census she is Lucy and in 1851 is Sarah, and back to Lucy in 1861 and then Sarah in 1871. The proximity of Winfield children on these censuses suggests that Lucy and Sarah are the same person.
I find it difficult to believe that different people made the same ‘mistake’ in recording her name as Sarah at significantly distinct times. My conclusion is that she may have referred to herself as ‘Lucy Sarah'(not a combination of names that crops up a lot ?) or simply ‘Sarah’
All circumstantial and inconclusive I am afraid.
Perhaps if George had left a will ??
Alan Smith added (Dec 2017) …
Winfield family/Crich link
Also worthy of note is… At the time of Richard’s birth in 1811, his mother is Lucy, yet on the 1871 census his mother Sarah is living with him and his family, this also points to Lucy and Sarah being one and the same person.
Also of interest is how; on the 1871 census alone: Sarah’s place of birth is the village of Heage rather than Crich, a distance of about 4 miles between the two.
Here’s a link to website you might be interested in while researching Crich ancestors, its the Crich Parish website:
http://www.crichparish.co.uk/
and if you wish to look at individual surnames, the link is:
http://www.crichparish.co.uk/indexwebpages/church.html
In addition to the children Lucy/Sarah and George Winfield had in Ilkeston, I also found a record on the IGI of baptism for a Mary Ann who was baptised in Crich 23rd May 1809 of George Winfield and Lucy.
